David was kind enough to give me far more information than I could fit into the 3DToolkit video, so here is the full email interview I did with him, lightly edited for clarity, with David’s responses in italics.
How did you hear about the 3DToolkit?
I'm pretty sure Alex Lindsay posted about it over on TheForce.net fanfilm forum, or if it wasn't Alex, it may have been Dave Macomber who was (sort of) involved with DVGarage too.
I know Duality used the full version of EIU and you have cited it as a favorite fan film, did you hear about the Toolkit from something related to that?
Yes, as mentioned above.
Why did you choose it over other similarly priced options at the time? For example, Bryce 3D/Poser, or Blender
For my first fanfilm, I used the free edition of Strata 3D, but I chose to use Electric Image for a variety of reasons:
1.) They used it for Duality, and I loved the quality of their renders, and wanted some of that.
2.) It seemed to be being used in a lot of high-end feature films, and again, if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for me. It wasn't stupidly expensive either considering the feature set. And (very importantly) it worked on a Mac platform, which (for example) 3D Max didn't.3.) Alex Lindsey used it for the ships in The Phantom Menace as I recall, and suddenly here was that guy offering a 'course' on how to use the same software, for not a lot of money.
4.) It was a total no-brainer, as I didn't really know how to use Strata, but could get a shot out. But this was an opportunity to actually learn EI/3D properly. Plus 'The Worlds Fastest Renderer' had a certain appeal too. :)
What was the first significant shot you remember completing using it?
It wasn't actually that great, but in the trailer for Storm Ahead, there's was a long slow track away from a bottle of red liquid. It was exciting for me because it was the first time I'd ever actually modeled anything. I never worked out how to model anything in Strata 3D (can't even remember if you could in their free version tbh)
But with EI, I knew I had a complete system I could begin to create my own stuff with.
What limitations did you experience with it that caused you to upgrade to the full version of EIU?
I can't remember why. Did it not have IK, there was clearly something that made me upgrade though, and I vaguely recall there being more features on the full version than the toolkit limited version.
What did the 3DToolkit offer that really made it standout amongst the competition?
Alex Lindsay training. That was the be all and end all for me, as he walked you through everything to get you up and running and get a decent shot out of the software. The price was cheap too, which made the purchase decision easy.
What need did the 3DToolkit fill in 2001?
Personally, it was my need to create my own stuff. I'd just made a fanfilm that used other peoples models, but now I wanted to create my own everything, rather than the same crap all over again. With Electric Image I now had all the tools to do this. Modeler was a great, and very intuitive modelling package. Still the easiest one I've ever used.
Did the 3DToolkit have any competitors in the 2001-2006 time-frame for a similar price with comparable features?
Not that I was aware of really. Although Cinema4D was being used by then, and if I had my time again, I would have started using that as soon as I could.
What role did the Toolkit play in your career?
It got me up and running in the world of 3D, and made me realize I could not only create my own 3D content, but also (quite soon after) understand that I could use it for my own clients work too. It was all about being able to create original content, because then I could do stuff that clients would pay for.
You mention on the Storm Ahead website that 3D work started to creep into your clients’ websites after you started applying what you learned making Dark Skies, what software were you using and how did it compare to the Toolkit?
At that stage, it was more the entire 'film making' thing, and specifically After Effects, rather than 3D work. I remember making four commercials for Hewlett Packard Storage Media, that used exactly the same techniques I'd just learnt doing Dark Skies. In fact, the client saw Dark Skies and gave me a nice budget to make those things with on the strength of that.
What are some of the things that creators had to deal with in the early 2000s that we take for granted these days and how did that impact your 3DToolkit workflow?
The massive thing was hosting your films somewhere.
This was all way before YouTube and Vimeo. When Dark Skies 'broke' I was hosting a lot of content on my own website, and you had to pay your webhost provider each month up to a certain amount of traffic. That month, I got a bill from my webhost for almost a grand, which was a lot back in the day. That was one of the main (behind the scenes) reasons why I lost interest in Storm Ahead, it was just expensive to host this stuff, and as it was all not-for-profit there was no point doing it. Especially as I was then getting 'proper' work too.
There weren't really any crashed, and render times were usually okay. Although I (stupidly) decided to try to make a load of clone pods simply by copy and pasting the same pod in various circles. That didn't work too well, and kept crashing the machine.Nowadays there are plenty of different ways to attack that content, not least the clone features within C4D.
What were your computer(s) specs that you were running while doing Storm Ahead (I think your website said you were using a PowerMac G4)?
I can't remember!
It was definitely a Mac though, and may well have been the G4. I do remember finally upgrading to a Cinema Display though, which was a big old chunk of cash back then, but I don't recall what computer I had. It wasn't top of the range Apple, but did the job and (my) Macs never really crashed.
Did you ever do network rendering with the Toolkit? If so, what was that experience like and how hard was it to set up?
No, I only ever had one computer back then.
How were the render times? I know that the EIU render engine was considered extremely fast for its day.
TBH, for most shots, render times have never been a huge issue, as long as they were complete by the next morning it didn't really matter if it was three hours or six hours. The render speed it always useful for iterations though, the faster the speed, the more you can do to get the shot (or the image) better and better quality before hitting that shot render button and going to bed. I always made sure I hit render before bedtime, even if I woke up and never actually used the shot, becuase I wanted to improve it.
Electric Image could produce a very pretty looking render very quickly, using the tools and techniques Alex taught me.
How did the training included with the Toolkit help you?
As mentioned, it gave me the confidence and the toolset to create my own original content, which meant everything to me back then, as I had no interest in just making another Star Wars film using someone else’s X-Wing Fighter model or whatever, as I'd already done that.
Learning 3D Software was (and still is) hard, but Alex held our hands and got us to the point where we could create decent content fairly quickly. Without him/that, I wouldn't have bothered even attempting Storm Ahead, as I wouldn't have learnt anything new.
Do you still work in Electric Image at all?
No. They stopped developing it years ago and I'm pretty sure it stopped actually working on new Macs years ago too. EI sold/gave the code to a couple of Brothers (Igors?) who messed around with it for a while, but didn't actually release any upgrades and that was that.
Personally I think when they stopped developing/supporting the (great) Modeler, and it just became the 'animation system', it was the beginning of the end for EI.
How long did you use the 3DToolkit?
Not long, maybe six months? But by then I'd been taught everything I needed to know so it was an invaluable six months. It only took a month or two tops to be able to get shots out of this new piece of software, it was a great course. I upgraded to the full version pretty quickly as I recall.
Did you do the CG stunt double (animation/modeling) for Storm Ahead in the 3DToolkit or full EIU?
No, I never actually got that good at it back then. There was talk of getting MoCap data (from Dave Macomber) and using that to make my own stunt doubles, but it didn't happen. Not because of Dave, but because by then I'd already moved onto other stuff/proper work.
Did you ever use the 3DToolkit for anything besides Storm Ahead? I know you wound up working with your uncle Colin on a feature film, did you you use the Toolkit on that at all or were you fully switched over to the full EIU by that point?
Funnily enough, I didn't even use Electric Image for my Uncle’s film. By then I jumped ship and went to Maya. EI was great at creating hard surface models, but wasn't so good at particle systems (didn't have one) and I was becoming more and more interested in particle systems by then, so went to Maya because by then I had enough money to buy it, and they had a particle system too.
Looking back, I should have chosen Cinema 4D at that point, as Maya didn't really make sense to me as a 3D program - whereas EI and C4D did (not sure if that was because the latter two were written primarily for a Mac platform, or what.
Is there anything about how Electric Image worked that you miss or don’t see in modern applications?
The Modeler. It was so easy to create models, whereas (even now) I struggle to create original models in 3D Software. EI’s Modeler was amazingly simple and so intuitive to me.
Which stood out the most to you, the 3Dtoolkit or the training that came with it?
The training, definitely. The toolkit was just a cheap way to own EI, but the training was the real value of the toolkit, and must have been a great sales tool for EI back in the day too, as people learnt EI and then upgraded to the full version.
Did you make a smooth transition straight from the 3DToolkit over to the full version of EIU or was there a significant learning curve?
It was a super smooth transition. I still used the toolkit training with the full version, as it was basically the same thing.
The CG in the Storm Ahead trailer still holds up quite well today, what are some tricks you figured out that helped you achieve this since the 3DToolkit was basically from the late 90s and you were dealing with the slow desktop hardware of the early 2000s?
The EI Render was just very good at producing pretty renders (if you followed the workflow Alex taught you) If the shot took eight hours to render back then and only two hours now is irrelevant, as the time was spent creating the thing in the first place, not so much the render time at the end. Nothing ever felt painfully slow back then I must admit. No more so than nowadays even.
Did you ever talk with any other creators that used the 3DToolkit to the same level that you did?
No. Although I eulogized about it, and DV Garage in general all of the time, no-one really seemed to use it much. I guess it still cost some money, and a lot of people had a cracked version of 3D Max on their PC's, which was fine for them.
I spoke with Dave Macomber quite a lot, and he was obviously very helpful and a great ambassador for EI back in the day.
I ask this question because I am still struggling to find anybody besides yourself that used the 3DToolkit to the same degree. Archived versions of dvgarage.com don’t seem to have any links to other indie projects or significant fanfilms(and the forums on dvgarage are long defunct and not backed up anywhere...the Wayback machine lets me access the main forum screen but no threads), the Jedi Council Forums don’t seem to have any threads on significant projects using it, and I have so far been unable to find any mentions of it on Google in connection with a project of any sort.
They not only created the 3D Toolkit, but then did an amazing Greenscreen plugin too (DVMatte I think it was called?) that pulled amazing keys effortlessly. I guess 3D Toolkit didn't make them a lot of money, so they went on to other things and the toolkit fell by the wayside. It was really good though, but maybe the market for Mac based 3D training software was just too small.
I’m currently wondering if the 3DToolkit was somehow overlooked and indie creators were buying 3DS Max or Lightwave and not considering EIU or the Toolkit for some reason. That doesn't make any sense to me considering just how much value the Toolkit contained, but I'd be very interested in your thoughts.
It's biggest 'flaws' I guess were that importing and using 3DS models was limited (or didn't even actually work as I recall) and so of course if you're making a film or whatever, not being able to use off-the-shelf models was a huge negative, as not many people could be arsed to take the time and built their own. It happened to be that that was the only thing that appealed to me about making a second fanfilm, so it was the perfect storm for me.
And (as mentioned) the fact that they stopped supporting the Modeler was the reason I realized I wouldn't continue using Electric Image after a while. I bought quite a few upgrades though, in fact all of them until they stopped using it, as I preferred it to Maya, because I really knew how to use it...all because of Alex’s training back in the day.
Do you remember what the deal was that EI had in place for 3DToolkit users to upgrade to the full version? I actually remember emailing them about it back around 2006-2007 and hearing back from them that they no longer offered an upgrade for Toolkit users so it must have only been around for a brief period of time.
I can’t remember what the deal was, but it was clearly cheap enough that I bought it, even though I didn’t 100% need it at the time (which was why I upgraded so quickly) £300 rings a faint bell though?
Do I understand correctly that Storm Ahead did not have a CG double built of Nikki in armor? I could have sworn that :47 of the main trailer transitions from a digi-double to live action.
No, I definitely didn’t do any MoCap work, although it would have been fun to do some back in the day, nowadays it’s so simple.
Links:
Storm Ahead website
Storm Ahead Teaser and main trailer
Storm Ahead production diary
3DToolkit documentary